Comments on: Battle of the improvement systems http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/ lean, six-sigma & quality Sat, 06 Mar 2010 21:16:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Tabengan http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-4954 Tabengan Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:22:49 +0000 http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/#comment-4954 Hrmm that was weird, my comment got eaten. Anyway I wanted to say that it's nice to know that someone else also mentioned this as I had trouble finding the same info elsewhere. This was the first place that told me the answer. I really like your ilustration with photo on your post, it's like a really Battle. hehehe.. Thank You. Hrmm that was weird, my comment got eaten. Anyway I wanted to say that it’s nice to know that someone else also mentioned this as I had trouble finding the same info elsewhere. This was the first place that told me the answer.

I really like your ilustration with photo on your post, it’s like a really Battle. hehehe.. Thank You.

]]> By: Bigmuscles http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-4896 Bigmuscles Fri, 08 Jan 2010 02:43:06 +0000 http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/#comment-4896 I believe anything depends on the company it self. The structure, the business matters etc etc. ISO can be useful to some but it surely would depend on may factors. I believe anything depends on the company it self. The structure, the business matters etc etc. ISO can be useful to some but it surely would depend on may factors.

]]> By: qamanager http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-4847 qamanager Thu, 24 Dec 2009 18:05:24 +0000 http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/#comment-4847 Shaun speaks a lot of sense doesn't he. Shaun speaks a lot of sense doesn't he.

]]> By: dayak http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-4846 dayak Thu, 24 Dec 2009 16:20:26 +0000 http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/#comment-4846 I really agreed with Shaun that's he says: The only other real benefit I've witnessed has been to throw a semblance of order around a disorganises system I really agreed with Shaun that's he says: The only other real benefit I've witnessed has been to throw a semblance of order around a disorganises system

]]> By: qamanager http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-4682 qamanager Sat, 31 Oct 2009 07:25:46 +0000 http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/#comment-4682 I agree that ISO 9001 provides a solid framework for a business, although it has to buy into the intent behind it and not just use it as wall paper. I agree that ISO 9001 provides a solid framework for a business, although it has to buy into the intent behind it and not just use it as wall paper.

]]> By: Shaun Sayers http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-4674 Shaun Sayers Mon, 26 Oct 2009 07:09:36 +0000 http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/#comment-4674 My firm view is that, for established companies with a half decent management system in place, the only real benefit of ISO 9001 is that it may offer access to contracts that require it as a selection criteria. The base line is set quite low and the standard to which auditors actually audit is often lower still (or at least highly elastic). That said, there is a lot to be said for gaining access to contract opportunities, so let's not knock that The only other real benefit I've witnessed has been to throw a semblance of order around a disorganises system. I've worked with managers frustrated, for example, with a day to day management attitude where the "system" (if you can call it that) is carried around in the heads of key individuals, Obviously this leave the business quite vulnerable to unexpected absences. ISO 9001 encourages a discipline of a basic documented structure that leaves the business less vulnerable to these things Beyond that I have found its real benefits limited and i get frustrated when I see exaggerated claims (usually by consultants) about how ISO 9001 WILL reduce costs, increase customer satisfaction and pay for itself very quickly. While I can accept that these can be outcomes, the reality is that no-one can give such guarantees. My firm view is that, for established companies with a half decent management system in place, the only real benefit of ISO 9001 is that it may offer access to contracts that require it as a selection criteria. The base line is set quite low and the standard to which auditors actually audit is often lower still (or at least highly elastic). That said, there is a lot to be said for gaining access to contract opportunities, so let's not knock that

The only other real benefit I've witnessed has been to throw a semblance of order around a disorganises system. I've worked with managers frustrated, for example, with a day to day management attitude where the "system" (if you can call it that) is carried around in the heads of key individuals, Obviously this leave the business quite vulnerable to unexpected absences. ISO 9001 encourages a discipline of a basic documented structure that leaves the business less vulnerable to these things

Beyond that I have found its real benefits limited and i get frustrated when I see exaggerated claims (usually by consultants) about how ISO 9001 WILL reduce costs, increase customer satisfaction and pay for itself very quickly. While I can accept that these can be outcomes, the reality is that no-one can give such guarantees.

]]> By: industries http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-3332 industries Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:51:07 +0000 http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/#comment-3332 <strong>industries...</strong> The latest ISO 9001 registration data shows impressive growth. The number of ISO 9001 certifications issued worldwide for quality management systems reached 670,399 at the end of 2004, an increase of 35 percent over the previous year, according to ISO.... industries…

The latest ISO 9001 registration data shows impressive growth. The number of ISO 9001 certifications issued worldwide for quality management systems reached 670,399 at the end of 2004, an increase of 35 percent over the previous year, according to ISO….

]]> By: Paul http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-3142 Paul Sat, 21 Feb 2009 20:17:11 +0000 http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/#comment-3142 Well written post I learned a lot. bodybuilding gas Well written post I learned a lot.

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]]> By: bodybuilding http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-3141 bodybuilding Sat, 21 Feb 2009 20:09:42 +0000 http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/#comment-3141 Thanks for your post robert. It was very helpful in understanding things especially on how 9001 and TQM could be combined for Six Sigma. Thanks for your post robert. It was very helpful in understanding things especially on how 9001 and TQM could be combined for Six Sigma.

]]> By: Gas forum http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-3140 Gas forum Sat, 21 Feb 2009 20:05:50 +0000 http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/#comment-3140 Thanks for the clarification Robert. It makes sense to me. Thanks for the clarification Robert. It makes sense to me.

]]> By: robert http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-7 robert Thu, 23 Nov 2006 16:08:18 +0000 http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/#comment-7 @meikah: Just a point of clarification, what I meant was that if an organisation has an ISO9001 compliant management system installed then there is a requirement for continuous improvement to be demonstrated within this framework. For me six sigma provides a means of evaluating how the ISO9001 system is improving business processes; if an ISO9001 system completely assured quality within a company then there would be no need for six sigma. Clearly it does not so there is a need for the six sigma process. Does this make sense? @meikah: Just a point of clarification, what I meant was that if an organisation has an ISO9001 compliant management system installed then there is a requirement for continuous improvement to be demonstrated within this framework. For me six sigma provides a means of evaluating how the ISO9001 system is improving business processes; if an ISO9001 system completely assured quality within a company then there would be no need for six sigma. Clearly it does not so there is a need for the six sigma process. Does this make sense?

]]> By: robert http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-1573 robert Thu, 23 Nov 2006 16:08:18 +0000 http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/#comment-1573 @meikah: Just a point of clarification, what I meant was that if an organisation has an ISO9001 compliant management system installed then there is a requirement for continuous improvement to be demonstrated within this framework. For me six sigma provides a means of evaluating how the ISO9001 system is improving business processes; if an ISO9001 system completely assured quality within a company then there would be no need for six sigma. Clearly it does not so there is a need for the six sigma process. Does this make sense? @meikah: Just a point of clarification, what I meant was that if an organisation has an ISO9001 compliant management system installed then there is a requirement for continuous improvement to be demonstrated within this framework. For me six sigma provides a means of evaluating how the ISO9001 system is improving business processes; if an ISO9001 system completely assured quality within a company then there would be no need for six sigma. Clearly it does not so there is a need for the six sigma process. Does this make sense?

]]> By: Meikah Delid http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-6 Meikah Delid Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:57:06 +0000 http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/#comment-6 Robert, good discussion you got going here. It's clear and succinct. Just a clarification: <br /><br />Six Sigma does not provide a template for evaluating an organization’s overall quality management efforts whereas ISO9001 does. I wonder what you mean by template here. Because I think the project charter or TMAP of Six Sigma can handle this.<br /><br />At any rate, I believe that all quality management strategies complement each other. In fact,sometimes, an organization's structure tell us which strategy or combination of strategies will work. Robert, good discussion you got going here. It’s clear and succinct. Just a clarification:

Six Sigma does not provide a template for evaluating an organization’s overall quality management efforts whereas ISO9001 does. I wonder what you mean by template here. Because I think the project charter or TMAP of Six Sigma can handle this.

At any rate, I believe that all quality management strategies complement each other. In fact,sometimes, an organization’s structure tell us which strategy or combination of strategies will work.

]]> By: Meikah Delid http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-1572 Meikah Delid Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:57:06 +0000 http://learnsigma.com/battle-of-the-improvement-systems/#comment-1572 Robert, good discussion you got going here. It's clear and succinct. Just a clarification: <br></br><br>Six Sigma does not provide a template for evaluating an organization’s overall quality management efforts whereas ISO9001 does. I wonder what you mean by template here. Because I think the project charter or TMAP of Six Sigma can handle this.</br><br></br><br>At any rate, I believe that all quality management strategies complement each other. In fact,sometimes, an organization's structure tell us which strategy or combination of strategies will work.</br> Robert, good discussion you got going here. It's clear and succinct. Just a clarification:

Six Sigma does not provide a template for evaluating an organization’s overall quality management efforts whereas ISO9001 does. I wonder what you mean by template here. Because I think the project charter or TMAP of Six Sigma can handle this.

At any rate, I believe that all quality management strategies complement each other. In fact,sometimes, an organization's structure tell us which strategy or combination of strategies will work.

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